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  • Episcopalians approve gay bishop

    Not that there is anything wrong with that???
    IRL, Champcar and F1 fan

  • #2
    I'm very conflicted here. Basically, I would be OK with it, though not totally liking it, if he had not been pushing the fact he is gay. He should have said (to paraphrase), "I'm qualified for the post, I've served the Church for 28 yrs., and will continue to serve my diocese well if appointed. Oh yes, I'm gay, but that does not mean I cannot do this, and if you don't like it, too bad."

    There's a difference in being a bishop who is gay and being a gay bishop. In the former, the fact that he is now a bishop is most important, while in the latter (which I think he chose) his sexual orientation dominates.

    Then again, as a Catholic I have little need to worry about this seeing as Rome thinks the world will end if they even allow *gasp* married priests.
    "Why do we do this? Because we love it, don't want to be anywhere else but a race car. We will keep your legacy my friend. Racers race."

    Tony Kanaan

    Comment


    • #3
      I really don't know much about the Episcopalians. I have never heard of a religion where being gay wasn't a sin. Plus he is obviously having sex without being married. But like I said, I don't really know much about the Episcopalians.
      IRL, Champcar and F1 fan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Racing Truth
        I'm very conflicted here. Basically, I would be OK with it, though not totally liking it, if he had not been pushing the fact he is gay. He should have said (to paraphrase), "I'm qualified for the post, I've served the Church for 28 yrs., and will continue to serve my diocese well if appointed. Oh yes, I'm gay, but that does not mean I cannot do this, and if you don't like it, too bad."

        There's a difference in being a bishop who is gay and being a gay bishop. In the former, the fact that he is now a bishop is most important, while in the latter (which I think he chose) his sexual orientation dominates.

        Then again, as a Catholic I have little need to worry about this seeing as Rome thinks the world will end if they even allow *gasp* married priests.
        I agree with you on your assessment of the Episcopal Bishop and as far as a married Catholic clergy, don't get me started. I've spoken "off the record" with many Catholic priests that are not very happy with celibacy, but have learned to accept it as part of their vocation. There is NO reason why a married clergyman can't serve as dutiful as a single one, but then again I'm just one of those darn liberals! No one has ever given me a resonable answer to why we still follow such archaic law. This is not a doctrinal matter but a man made church law.
        Have a very blessed day!

        Comment


        • #5
          PHJ I have often wondered why Catholic priests could not get married. It seems like God would want a priest to have kids.
          IRL, Champcar and F1 fan

          Comment


          • #6
            Sharing my concerns on the subject, I've always tried to be open minded about different people, etc. Living, temporarily, in South Florida with a large gay population, I have befriended a few gay people. Wonderful people and glad to call them friends. BUT, I'm concerned about the sense of overall acceptance of homosexuality in the mainstream United States. There have been major, major developments over the past six months with the U.S. Supreme Court ruling, the Mass. State Supreme Court is likely to strike a ban on gay marriage, and now the Episcopal thing. Personally, I feel the acceptance of a "status" is irrelevant to the law. Its not a "class" that deserves protection such as disabled Americans. I'm not sure rights, such as marriage licenses, should be granted based on a lifestyle choice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Will drunks demand a Bishop of their own? How about the cheats, liars and gamblers? Why have values at all?

              A bishop that would put his selfish gains ahead of the flock and knowingly cause a rift in the church can't be real.

              Matthew 7

              17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
              18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
              19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
              20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
              21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
              22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
              23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



              Water down your values at your own risk!

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not sure being gay or gay behavior is a value or moral. Gays are born that way. It's genetic. I don't think anybody wakes up one day and says I'm switching, just to be different. Don't you remember the kid in 1st grade that skipped rope with the girls instead of playing sports or war or with toy cars. With that in mind, I cannot call homosexuals sinners. Also, tolerance is not a form of slipping values. Just worry about yourself and your family and everything takes care of itself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PIGSKINPETE
                  Just worry about yourself and your family and everything takes care of itself.
                  That's what got us to this point. Apathy...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why do you call it apathy? Maybe I did not make myself clear. I should have said, everybody has a right to live their lives as they see fit. Freedom and individuality are cornerstones of our country. If your actions do not harm someone else ,you are ok with me. To tie this in with the gay bishop issue, I would say his sexuality is not going to influence someone else's sexual decision. I can't imagine someone thinking, " My bishop is gay, I think I'll do a @#$%homosexual act. Plus, this bishop may have some qualities that are extremely positive that qualified him, besides who he sleeps with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Bluefeather,

                      Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and will try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I will simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

                      I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

                      1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

                      2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

                      3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev. 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

                      4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

                      5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

                      6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

                      7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

                      8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

                      9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

                      10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

                      I know from your posts that you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

                      Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,

                      W-S


                      "Ooh woo, I'm a Rebel just for kicks, now
                      I been feeling it since 1966, now..."

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Stay tune for the answers!!!

                        You'll love them IF you love the truth!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's my reply

                          1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
                          Hebrews 10
                          1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
                          2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
                          3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
                          4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
                          5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

                          2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? Answer Life in prison…
                          Romans 10
                          1: Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
                          2: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of god, but not according to knowledge.
                          3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
                          4: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
                          5: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
                          6: But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
                          7: Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
                          8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth,and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
                          9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
                          10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
                          11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


                          Thanks for the opportunity to spread the Gospel of Christ!!!
                          3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev. 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
                          Answer Seek the Lord and walk in His ways
                          Phillippians 2
                          13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
                          14: Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
                          15: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

                          4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? Answer
                          Hebrews 8: 6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
                          7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
                          8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
                          9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
                          10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
                          11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
                          12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
                          13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

                          5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
                          Answer Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And there's more!

                            Reply Continued...
                            6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
                            Answer Luke 13 1: There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
                            2: And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
                            3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
                            4: Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
                            5: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
                            And also,
                            Acts 10 1: There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
                            2: A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.
                            3: He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
                            4: And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
                            5: And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
                            6: He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
                            7: And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
                            8: And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
                            9: On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
                            10: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
                            11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
                            12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
                            13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
                            14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
                            15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
                            16: This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
                            17: Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

                            7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
                            Answer Faith in Christ. Hebrews 4: 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

                            8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? Answer read the answer to #2 again with a focus on verses 4 and 5.

                            9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
                            Answer You're worrying about the wrong things.
                            Luke 19
                            1: And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
                            2: And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
                            3: And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
                            4: And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
                            5: And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
                            6: And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
                            7: And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
                            8: And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
                            9: And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
                            10: For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


                            10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
                            Answer John 8
                            4: They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
                            5: Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
                            6: This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
                            7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
                            8: And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
                            9: And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
                            10: When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
                            11: She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


                            Anyone still reading????
                            I noticed your wink and I was not offended that you asked. I was not trying to offend either of you. This reminded me of a Sunday School pop quiz!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So bluefeather, as part of this new covenant, what exactly did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?
                              "But another icy Indiana winter will come and go and before we know it, springtime returns and it will be May and the roar of engines will once again breathe life into the lazy Hoosier sky and bring us back together." -- Sid Collins

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