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  • Carpocalypse

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartandhp

    It will take some time, but car ownership is going to slowly become less and less popular (They are ridiculously expensive if you insist on a new car). That's not to say that cars are going to go away, or that drivers are going to go away any time soon, but it is coming. Like it or not.

    That data in the article is interesting, but not wholly relevant in my opinion.

  • #2
    I agree that car ownership will continue to decline, and that in some urban areas it just makes very littl sense to own a car for daily driving.

    But this: “Cars create inequality “. LOL, ok. Well good then, just one more thing to differentiate those that do, from those that whine about those that do.

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    • #3
      Oh, Car-pocalypse.
      I thought this was going to be about the Carp-ocalypse
      "Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob." - Federalist 55
      “My first reaction as a race car driver was to jump out of the car and use the Foyt technique of driver development - grab him and pound some sense into him.”
      "Make way. I'm Reaganing."

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      • #4
        The founders of the ride-sharing app Lyft filed their IPO papers last week, and their vision for the company is dramatic. Lyft (which works a bit like Uber) is not just about getting you from A to B, they say. Rather, founders Logan Green and John Zimmer believe that car ownership is in permanent decline and they want to help it die, they write in their S-1 filing.
        Of course, their vested interest in people not owning cars has nothing to do with it.

        I wonder if cars will always be so expensive. I mean much of the cost in current cars is due to development for reducing emissions & increasing fuel mileage.
        What happens when the cars are all electric and don't have emissions? And there's almost no maintenance costs?
        What about insurance on a self-driving car?
        And, Lyft & Uber still aren't quite as convenient as having a car of one's own. I would find it irritating to depend on a ride service.
        "It is a besetting vice of democracies to substitute public opinion for law. This is the usual form in which masses of men exhibit their tyranny." - James Fenimore Cooper

        "One man with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson

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        • #5
          We have two cars for our family of four at the moment, but in early retirement, I'm hoping to live somewhere that allows over 90% biking/walking. We'll probably have an old, paid-off vehicle just for longer trips or carrying larger payloads. But I could see rentals/ride sharing as an alternative, to avoid paying insurance/registration and taking up driveway/garage room with a little-used object.

          Two cars feels essential now though. We just upgraded both our vehicles (one was totaled by a tailgater), and the combined value of our vehicles is still under $10k, with reasonably low mileage.
          No weather forecasts are ever guaranteed, even if confidence level is high. Even a 99% probability will miss 1% of the time. That's the best anybody can do when predicting highly complex events.

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          • #6
            My 2015 Accord Sport and ‘17 Civic didn’t go over $25K out the door. I helped my mother buy a ‘18 Accord Sport last year and it didn’t go over $25K. My son is starting college in Automotive Technology next year. This article is amusing that cars create inequality. I own 3. 2 DDs and one vintage ride. My son will be getting his own this summer. No way I’m using Uber. I like being in control and hate taking a taxi just going to the airport.

            I don’t like sharing my car and I drive one vehicle 8k a year and the 2017 just turned 10K on the clock.
            Last edited by WatsonRoadster9; 03-04-2019, 10:04 AM.
            Chicago Cubs 2016 World Series Champions

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            • #7
              Originally posted by WatsonRoadster9 View Post
              My 2015 Accord Sport and ‘17 Civic didn’t go over $25K out the door. I helped my mother buy a ‘18 Accord Sport last year and it didn’t go over $25K. My son is starting college in Automotive Technology next year. This article is amusing that cars create inequality. I own 3. 2 DDs and one vintage ride. My son will be getting his own this summer. No way I’m using Uber. I like being in control and hate taking a taxi just going to the airport.

              I don’t like sharing my car and I drive one vehicle 8k a year and the 2017 just turned 10K on the clock.
              You could have saved quite a bit of money buying cars with 50k miles on them, and still gotten another 20+ years of life out of them.

              That's what we do. Somebody else takes the massive depreciation hit for a few years, and then we drive the cars until they are near death many years later (or until somebody else crashes into them). We buy reliable cars that really don't need that much maintenance. The theoretical higher cost of maintenance is made up for ten times over by the lower purchase, insurance, and registration costs.

              It's great that $25,000 doesn't seem like much to you (I don't mean that sarcastically), but to most people, that's several MONTHS of work, or more if they finance. We'll never pay that much for a car again.
              No weather forecasts are ever guaranteed, even if confidence level is high. Even a 99% probability will miss 1% of the time. That's the best anybody can do when predicting highly complex events.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ren Butler View Post
                You could have saved quite a bit of money buying cars with 50k miles on them, and still gotten another 20+ years of life out of them.

                That's what we do. Somebody else takes the massive depreciation hit for a few years, and then we drive the cars until they are near death many years later (or until somebody else crashes into them). We buy reliable cars that really don't need that much maintenance. The theoretical higher cost of maintenance is made up for ten times over by the lower purchase, insurance, and registration costs.

                It's great that $25,000 doesn't seem like much to you (I don't mean that sarcastically), but to most people, that's several MONTHS of work, or more if they finance. We'll never pay that much for a car again.
                $25K is a lot of money to me, which is why I keep my cars to 10+ years (other than my Mom). I buy new cause I keep them that long and I don’t like buying used. I’ve done that before and would up buying someone else’s problem. I like knowing the full history of the vehicle. I had to rebuild the engine in the vintage ride 6 months after buying it.

                I meant to say $25K seems avg. for a car instead of the stated $33K. College tuition is another overblown expense.
                Chicago Cubs 2016 World Series Champions

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                • #9
                  Just make sure that the original window sticker comes with that 2-year old ex rental so you can paste it back on for a couple months.
                  "Factually Unfounded Opinion" Rep. Elijah Cummings
                  "Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will." Mark Twain

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                  • #10
                    Not sure about car-pocalypse just yet, but significant shift downward in car ownership in major metropolitan areas is certainly easy to see, especially for millenials.

                    It becomes a cost vs benefit calculation in many cases and a pure cannot afford a car in other cases.

                    Add up purchase cost, insurance, parking, taxes, gas and maintenance and the number can quickly become a big number, too big to afford, even if looking at a 'beater'.

                    Exosuburban and rural...a car will still be a necessity for many years.

                    Even if Lyft/Uber 'take over' somebody's got to build cars for the Lyft/Uber drivers...many of who are part-time.
                    BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

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                    • #11
                      I noticed, not far from where I live (about six miles or so in Lenexa) a new complex going in with apartments on top of retail shops, so you don't have to drive to get (most) things you need.
                      "I didn't hear a single comment about airboxes, "carbashians", or how terrible the car looked. I did see dozens and dozens of little kids in awe of the speed and how cool the cars looked. We should learn from our children."
                      --Danny Noonan

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skypigeon View Post
                        I noticed, not far from where I live (about six miles or so in Lenexa) a new complex going in with apartments on top of retail shops, so you don't have to drive to get (most) things you need.
                        I know a lady lives in a condo in Chicago. Nordstroms (I believe) is on the first floor.
                        She orders online and has it delivered UPS/FedEx. Drive?
                        "The Internet. Where fools go to feel important" - Sir Charles Barkley

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WatsonRoadster9 View Post
                          ... I don’t like buying used. I’ve done that before and would up buying someone else’s problem. I like knowing the full history of the vehicle.
                          True, but when you buy new, you're buying the factory's problem. When I buy older cars, they've typically had all their inherent flaws fixed and recall work completed. My last new car was a 2003 Infiniti, and I had to do a brake recall and get the steering wheel fixed.

                          During our latest car search(es), Carfax info was universally available, at no cost. I was surprised at how much maintenance information was included in the reports.
                          No weather forecasts are ever guaranteed, even if confidence level is high. Even a 99% probability will miss 1% of the time. That's the best anybody can do when predicting highly complex events.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ren Butler View Post
                            True, but when you buy new, you're buying the factory's problem. When I buy older cars, they've typically had all their inherent flaws fixed and recall work completed. My last new car was a 2003 Infiniti, and I had to do a brake recall and get the steering wheel fixed.

                            During our latest car search(es), Carfax info was universally available, at no cost. I was surprised at how much maintenance information was included in the reports.
                            I got burned on a previously leased 1998 Malibu that had 30K miles that was originally from Michigan and was leased. I bought it as a certified used car from a Saturn dealership that had a clean car fax that I paid for (this was 2001). That car started having all kinds of front end issues. Chevy dealership brought to my attention that rear trailing arms were bent. I did some research through the Michigan DMV via the VIN (found where the car was leased and by who). I found the woman’s address via the Internet and called her. Her teenage daughter was driving the car to HS and a Mack truck plowed into it and totaled it. She could not believe the car was rebuilt and still on the road with my infant son riding in the back seat. The Saturn dealership bought the car via an auction and sold it as a certified car in IL. Never again. I had another fiasco with a classic car dealership in St. Louis.

                            I wound up trading in that ‘98 Malibu which cost me $8K and lost about $3500. I contacted Carfax with the info that I uncovered and they offered to refund the purchase price of the report $40. I wouldn’t trust the paper that CarFax is printed on.

                            My Dad purchased a used Cavalier in ‘92 with supposedly 12K on it and the odometer locked when turning to 13K. Research through proved that a traveling salesman owned that car and should have had over 100K. I told my Dad after he bought it that a car with that low of miles should not have whitewalls on it.
                            Last edited by WatsonRoadster9; 03-05-2019, 12:05 PM.
                            Chicago Cubs 2016 World Series Champions

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                            • #15
                              carfax has certainly changed the used car industry.
                              Asked how he’d like to be remembered were he hit by a bus tomorrow, Tracy doesn’t hesitate: “I’m a race-car driver. At the last second, I’d swerve and avoid the bus.”

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