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  • Tweaking the NCAA tournament

    Since they haven't made any adjustment to the NCAA tournament in over 20 years (and the number of D-1 basketball teams have grown by leaps and bounds since the last change to the tournament; there are close to 350 D-1 programs now), here is how I would tweak it.

    Automatic bids- 31 conference champs (same as its been)

    At large bids- 37 teams (up 3 from the way its been)

    TOTAL TEAMS IN NCAA TOURNEY- 68 teams


    Why add 3 teams?

    -3 more additional deserving teams added to field, who had good regular seasons and may have had a hiccup in their conference tournaments (reward good regular seasons).

    -continue to make it fairly difficult to make it (don't add so many teams; that it rewards medicority and makes the regular season even less important than it already is)

    Why 68 teams?

    -keeps integrity of current 4 location bracket system

    Why make the 16 seeds play each other, to get into "field of 64"?

    -Most are weak teams. No 16 seed has EVER beaten a #1 seed. They already are getting a piece of the pie. You want a shot at the #1 seed? Beat another team of like strength, on a neutral floor, and take your shot.


    Here is how my system would look this year:


    3 added at large teams are Arizona State, Illinois State and Ohio State


    Round 1 (play in games; all are 16 seeds):


    Tuesday (Dayton, Ohio)- Coppin State vs Mount St. Mary's (7:00 PM)
    Mississippi Valley State vs Belmont (9:30 PM)

    Tuesday (Kansas City, Missouri)- Texas Arlington vs Austin Peay (7:00 PM)
    UMBC vs Portland State (9:30 PM)


    Round 1 EAST-

    1 North Carolina vs 16 Coppin/Mt. St Mary winner
    8 Indiana vs 9 Arkansas

    4 Washington State vs 13 Illinois State
    5 Notre Dame vs 12 George Mason

    2 Tennesee vs American
    7 Butler vs 10 South Alabama

    3 Louisville vs 14 Winthrop
    6 Oklahoma vs 11 St Josephs


    Round 1 SOUTH-

    1 Memphis vs 16 Austin Peay/Texas Arl winner
    8 Mississippi State vs 9 Oregon

    4 Pittsburgh vs 13 Arizona State
    5 Michigan State vs 12 Temple

    2 Texas vs 15 Cornell
    7 Miami vs 10 St. Mary's

    3 Stanford vs 14 Oral Roberts
    6 Marquette vs 11 Kentucky


    Round 1 MIDWEST-

    1 Kansas vs 16 UMBC/Portland State winner
    8 UNLV vs 9 Kent State

    4 Vanderbilt vs 13 Siena
    5 Clemson vs 12 Villanova

    2 Georgetown vs 15 Boise State
    7 Gonzaga vs 10 Davidson

    3 Wisconsin vs 14 Georgia
    6 USC vs 11 Kansas State


    Round 1 WEST-

    1 UCLA vs Miss Valley/Belmont winner
    8 BYU vs 9 Texas A'M

    4 Connecticut vs 13 Ohio State
    5 Drake vs 12 Western Kentucky

    2 Duke vs 15 Cal State Fullerton
    7 West Virginia vs 10 Arizona

    3 Xavier vs 14 San Diego
    6 Purdue vs 11 Baylor


    Comments?
    IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"

    "I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.

  • #2
    When you add those three extra teams to make it 68 teams, you're going to tick off the teams who are #69, 70, 71, 72, etc. So, why not let them in? Then 73, 74, 75, 76 will feel like they got a raw deal too. I mean, how far are we going to take this concept?

    The only tweak I would suggest for your idea of an NCAA tourney if they were to do it that way with 68 teams is to make the "bubble" teams play each other.

    Rather than deciding between teams with nearly identical resumes, let those teams play it out on a neutral floor in order to play their way into being a #12 seed to play against a #5 seed.

    IMHO, the small conference teams like the Coppin State's and Mount Saint Mary's of the world earned their way into the tournament by winning something. They won their own conference tourney. Take away their chance at playing in the actual tournament instead of putting them in a play-in game to get bigger conference teams in and what do they have to strive for at the end of the season.

    The bubble teams didn't win anything in their conference.
    If I were Ed Carpenter and you were a lady...

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    • #3
      I suppose that makes as much sense as any other change. At least it would give those 8 teams a real shot at winning another game. The other idea would be to straight up give the little guys their low seeds, and make all these at-large guys play each other for the right to get into the main tournament. In many ways, I like that idea more. Theoretically, the quality of play would be higher and you would be dealing with teams that could make a tournament run. Because let's face it...generally the play-in games just gives the winner the right to get blown out by the #1.

      Only way to expand beyond this would be to do away with the conference tournaments and just make a really big pool for the overall tournament. One that would give a realistic shot to all conference winners. I don't like the idea of keeping the conference tournaments and then trying to add in another weekend for the overall tournament. I think that would put too much emphasis of the athlete part of the student athletes. Not sure what sort of money is involved in the conference tournaments though. For the big conferences, its probably enough that they would block losing them.

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      • #4
        I would make two tweaks:

        1.) eliminate the +1 play in game

        2.) eliminate automatic bids

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by richie

          1. When you add those three extra teams to make it 68 teams, you're going to tick off the teams who are #69, 70, 71, 72, etc. So, why not let them in? Then 73, 74, 75, 76 will feel like they got a raw deal too. I mean, how far are we going to take this concept?

          2. IMHO, the small conference teams like the Coppin State's and Mount Saint Mary's of the world earned their way into the tournament by winning something. They won their own conference tourney. Take away their chance at playing in the actual tournament instead of putting them in a play-in game to get bigger conference teams in and what do they have to strive for at the end of the season.

          3. The bubble teams didn't win anything in their conference.
          1. You can put 300 teams in, and #301 is going to whine. That's never going to change. This way, there are 3 more spots available, for those bubble teams.

          2. These little guys are already getting more notoriety than they probably deserve anyway. Coppin State lost 20 games and they got into the tournament. Georgia won 4 games all year in the SEC and got hot. This tournament is about crowning the best college basketball team. We must not forget that. Yes, the little guy is a good story early on. But, my tweaking helps bring more QUALITY teams and players into the tournament, while keeping the same number of automatic bids for the "little guy". The San Diego's and Siena's and Oral Roberts's are still there, to get their shot at the big boys. But, a 16 seed, that probably couldn't win 3 games in a power conference, and has never beaten a #1 seed, is a far cry from a good small conference team (that is usually seeded #13, #14 and #15).

          3. Ohio State played Michigan State and lost in a close game. Illinois State lost to Drake. Arizona State lost to USC, on a disputed referee's call. Its not like these teams lost to Northwestern or Rutgers. They played good teams, beat good teams throughout the year and lost to good teams in and out of conference. Again, reward doing good things from November to March. Not just for 4 days during your conference tournament.
          IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"

          "I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jimmy Hendricks
            3. Ohio State played Michigan State and lost in a close game. Illinois State lost to Drake. Arizona State lost to USC, on a disputed referee's call. Its not like these teams lost to Northwestern or Rutgers. They played good teams, beat good teams throughout the year and lost to good teams in and out of conference. Again, reward doing good things from November to March. Not just for 4 days during your conference tournament.
            * Ohio State also lost 4 of their 8 regular season Big 10 games to sub .500 teams

            * Arizona State lost to TWO sub .500 Pac 10 teams at home

            * Illinois State lost to an 8-10 MVC team and two 9-9 MVC teams.

            Tournament teams SHOULD be winning these games, period.

            While the system is far from perfect, all of these teams did have pretty good regular seasons, yet all of them could've won a couple of these games that I mentioned very well could've put them in the tournament, but they didn't and now they're out, so I don't feel bad for any of them, especially Ohio State and the lousy Big 10 .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DamonG19
              * Ohio State also lost 4 of their 8 regular season Big 10 games to sub .500 teams

              * Arizona State lost to TWO sub .500 Pac 10 teams at home

              * Illinois State lost to an 8-10 MVC team and two 9-9 MVC teams.

              Tournament teams SHOULD be winning these games, period.

              While the system is far from perfect, all of these teams did have pretty good regular seasons, yet all of them could've won a couple of these games that I mentioned very well could've put them in the tournament, but they didn't and now they're out, so I don't feel bad for any of them, especially Ohio State and the lousy Big 10 .

              This year is not indictitive of how the final few teams look. There were a lot of weak resumes fighting for those final few spots this year.

              Most years, there are about 3-4 teams that should make the tournament, and could do some damage in the tournament, that get left out. That's what my change to the tournament would help take care of (at least better).

              Plus, with a few more good teams (and a couple fewer weak sister small school teams), involved, it would just lead to better, more competitive 1st round games. I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather see my proposed UConn/Ohio State 1st round game (with national programs and big fanbases), then a UConn/San Diego 1st round matchup. I bet UConn doesn't feel the same way.
              IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"

              "I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.

              Comment


              • #8
                As much as I can't stand Dick Vitale, he said,

                "Arizona State beat Arizona twice and they had a better conference record.
                Arizona State beat Arizona twice and they had a better conference record.
                Arizona State beat Arizona twice and they had a better conference record.
                Arizona State beat Arizona twice and they had a better conference record."
                "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
                ~~Groucho Marx
                I have the hots for Khaleesi...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Eliminate conference tournaments.
                  "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
                  ~~Groucho Marx
                  I have the hots for Khaleesi...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by [B
                    [comfortably numb]Eliminate conference tournaments[/B].
                    ...automatic bids...
                    www.dulcetroad.com

                    My Band's website!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      oops
                      www.dulcetroad.com

                      My Band's website!!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by comfortably numb
                        Eliminate conference tournaments.
                        Yes.

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                        • #13
                          You know what I meant, eliminate automatic bids to conference tournament winners.
                          www.dulcetroad.com

                          My Band's website!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Which means there is no reason for the tournaments.
                            "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."
                            ~~Groucho Marx
                            I have the hots for Khaleesi...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by comfortably numb
                              Eliminate conference tournaments.
                              Sounds great. Would make a lot of sense.

                              Except, they are big money makers for the major conferences.

                              And, they give the smaller school conferences, a chance at national recognition, when normally, they get next-to-none.


                              Again, we just need to find that perfect balance between the regular season of 4 months and the conference tourney season of 4 days. I think by adding a few more "at large" teams into the field, it gives greater incentive and a little more importance to the regular season. And, by pitting the 16 seeds against one another, it helps eliminate some of those crap teams that may have gotten lucky for a couple of days, in their conference tournament. I am sorry, but Coppin State (with 20 losses) has NO business in any post-season tournament. It could be argued that a couple of these conferences don't deserve automatic bids anyway, but you would have a hard time changing that now.

                              Your season shouldn't always be decided by 1 bad game in a post-season tournament. With some of these teams, it is. Butler missed the tournament one year, mainly because they lost 1 game in their conference tournament. They only lost about 4 games all year. They would have made it, had there been 3 more teams, added as "at large's". There are usually a few teams each year, that fit this category. It didn't neccesarily happen this year, but this was an unusual year in many of the bigger conferences (many conferences had weak mid-pack teams).
                              IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"

                              "I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.

                              Comment

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